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Tuesday, March 18, 2008

Barack Obama's speech on race in America. The most inspiring--and inspired--things to come out of this campaign so far. A West Wing moment if there ever was one.

6 Comments:

Blogger Ben said...

Best valedictorian speech ever.

His speech did nothing to explain how he was a member of a congregation lead by a man such as Wright for 20 years. His quip about "who of you haven't had disagreements with something your pastor, priest or rabbi said" doesn't begin to cover it.

Do a mental find-and-replace and swap out Rev Wright for Bob Jones, and see how that shakes out in your mind's acceptablity detectors. If Obama was white and republican, and his pastor said what Rev Wright was saying, but about whites, this would all be over with a "West Wing moment"?

The left's hypocrisy on religion is transparent.

3:27 PM  
Blogger Christopher Zane said...

The speech is on race, not religion. Doesn't it make you question your objectivity that you're so quick to take it from race and make it about religion? You could make hamburgers about religion.

One thing that Obama can't say (and still be elected) is that Wright more than kind of has a point about some of this stuff, even if he's making it in a fiery, black-church sort of way. Bob Jones couldn't make that speech because the only way to make points like Wright made about race in America about white people is to pretty much be a racist. Is racism an epidemic in America? Of course it is.

And the more objective coverage of Wright shows him as much more middle-of-the-road than the coverage that's obviously aimed at blowing it out of proportion.

West Wing moments are wonderful; I haven't had a real one in my entire lifetime until now. Don't discount their opportunity.

Another way to tell that you're not thinking about this situation but about the left's hypocrisy on religion is that you're characterizing the feeling of pride/hope that I was writing about as such. That's crazy talk.

4:12 PM  
Blogger Ben said...

"The speech is on race, not religion."

Cute quip about the hamburger thing, but let's flip it around: a leftist could make anything not about religion--When you say "This isn't about religion", the only way I can make sense of that is to add, "because to most leftists religion doesn't really matter."

The speech is about religion: it was meant to explain Obama's religion, which, in his case, is intimately tied with race.

Most religious people think that, wow, religion matters, and that the religion someone chooses ACTUALLY SAYS SOMETHING about what that person believes.

Obama has been a member of a church which is a product and producer of racial divisiveness. No one forced him to choose a race-based religion. Religious people, such as myself, have to ask, "WTF?"

"Wright more than kind of has a point about some of this stuff"

If I say extreme right-wing stuff, I don't become "balanced" by saying extreme left-wing stuff. The man is an extremist.

"Bob Jones couldn't make that speech because the only way to make points like Wright made about race in America about white people is to pretty much be a racist."

Wright isn't a racist?

"Another way to tell that you're not thinking about this situation but about the left's hypocrisy on religion is that you're characterizing the feeling of pride/hope that I was writing about as such. That's crazy talk."

It's crazy talk to say that the left puts its religious fervor into its political projects? How is that not true? Now THIS is a tangent, I wasn't talking about that at all.

12:22 PM  
Blogger Christopher Zane said...

Is your point on this whole thing that it's not fair that he turned this into a positive thing? That he wouldn't get away with this if he were a Republican?

"The Right" not only gets away with this kind of thing, they seek out the support of extremist demagogues, and sometimes the demagogues even run for president. I urge you to stop drinking the conservative-blog Kool-aid.

Of course religion matters. But it sounds like you're saying that it's all that matters and we should view everything--including hamburgers--in its lens. It's a consistent, but absolute, view, and it leaves very little room for discussion with anyone who doesn't see things that way.

We can keep talking past each other like this, but we're not going to get anywhere.

For the record, what, exactly, did Wright say on race--in the context that it was delivered--that leads you to believe he's an extremist? Other leading religious figures have come out to compare Wright's rhetoric as no more extreme than MLK's.

4:11 PM  
Blogger Ben said...

"Is your point on this whole thing that it's not fair that he turned this into a positive thing?"

No, please follow. The point is that he didn't answer the questions.

"I urge you to stop drinking the conservative-blog Kool-aid."

I urge you to actually follow the discussion. I haven't read conservative blogs in probably four years or longer. I don't need marching orders from blogmasters to help me parse this. I saw what the Rev was saying, and I read Obama's speech. Great speech, clap clap, but there was a question being asked. "But his speech was so great! Why aren't you satisfied?"

"Of course religion matters. But it sounds like you're saying that it's all that matters and we should view everything--including hamburgers--in its lens."

You're extremely off topic. Actually look at the things I'm writing. If something is explictly about religion, then it's about religion. If I was mad cause Obama was eating meat on a Friday, then you might have a point. But you don't have a point here: because this topic is explicitly about religion--Obama's religion.

"Other leading religious figures have come out to compare Wright's rhetoric as no more extreme than MLK's."

Please.

Final statement: You say we're talking past each other, fine. The reason for that I already outlined: because I think that Obama's religious choice says something about him, and you don't seem to think so. I think that he didn't answer the question at all, and you think that he gave such a great speech.

6:20 PM  
Blogger Katherine Kelly said...

I'm a few days late.

Christopher Zane-You win.

ben-You lose.

Christopher Zane-I'm glad you ended the debate.

ben-final statement- "condemn the sin but love the sinner." i'll do my best to keep loving you but damn you make it hard!

12:28 AM  

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